PKP Seasons

Yea I don't think I've seen Chaos so well represented....and by monsters nonetheless.

Galaydon wrote: Galaydon wrote: This will bring a lot of hate and for once I'm not even trolling. Highlight all the pkp code then press delete. I want that feeling back of working days on finding someone's habits and gate posts. I want to let out a yell when we chase someone across two continents to finally get just 1 kill that day. I want to be forced into setting traps and seeking out new ways to kill you. I want the guy playing the char I'm fighting giving me 110% effort to rip my head off. I don't want someone sitting there not caring if they win or lose cause of some STUPID stat point. I want to break down every piece of mechanics to try and get even the slightest edge. I want to log every single fight just to break it down and eliminate any slight mistake. I want to be level 25 and terrified to leave the hall and train because I'm trying to hit 51 without losing the wanted flag. I want max effort from everyone, at all times. I dont want some stupid stat point for half hearted effort. I want see if I bring enough skill to a fight to win. I want to see if I have what it takes or do I need to push harder. Give me effort. Give me skill. DSL pkp has made us all lazy. You all have gone soft and forgot competition. Stop giving me a participation trophy.

Forcing others to spread their PKPs into other stats besides STR and DEX would be good, I think.  I'd enjoy seeing how INT or WIS could affect things, and not simply on the battlefield.

Lebowski wrote: Galaydon wrote: This will bring a lot of hate and for once I'm not even trolling. Highlight all the pkp code then press delete. I want that feeling back of working days on finding someone's habits and gate posts. I want to let out a yell when we chase someone across two continents to finally get just 1 kill that day. I want to be forced into setting traps and seeking out new ways to kill you. I want the guy playing the char I'm fighting giving me 110% effort to rip my head off. I don't want someone sitting there not caring if they win or lose cause of some STUPID stat point. I want to break down every piece of mechanics to try and get even the slightest edge. I want to log every single fight just to break it down and eliminate any slight mistake. I want to be level 25 and terrified to leave the hall and train because I'm trying to hit 51 without losing the wanted flag. I want max effort from everyone, at all times. I dont want some stupid stat point for half hearted effort. I want see if I bring enough skill to a fight to win. I want to see if I have what it takes or do I need to push harder. Give me effort. Give me skill. DSL pkp has made us all lazy. You all have gone soft and forgot competition. Stop giving me a participation trophy. Big agree, when people aren't trying to survive there's no fun to be had in trying to kill them.

So why was PKP started to begin with? Would people PK less if you completely removed PKP?

I think a cap of 8-10 per stat is more than enough to reel in PKP. You don't really need anything fancier than that.

Tongpu wrote: Azah wrote: PKP has a billion times more impact in field PK than concards do. Concards are more of a concern in arena fighting. If you want to fix field PK, remove PKP. If you want to fix arena fighting, remove concards. What he said. @Malachi: Pkp began as a way to reward people for participating in field pk. It wasn't until later we realized the long term impact and damage it would cause to casual play. An uncalculated outcome of pkp was also the growth of survival apathy, which leads to people being rewarded for essentially turning off their will to live. And that is not good.

I totally agree with what you said about "survival apathy". I may have died more than my fair share but it was never out of not caring about trying to live.

I don't really enjoy just steamrolling folks looking for that +1, although I will gladly do it to chase numbers myself. I much rather enjoy a tough fight in which both parties stay to the end. Heck, the most enjoyable PK experience I've had recently was vs a red mage, not even a CSR, who just refused to die after days and days of continuously attacking him. It made me work.


Edited by Malachi - 27 December 2020 at 5:22pm

Malachi wrote: So why was PKP started to begin with? Would people PK less if you completely removed PKP? I think a cap of 8-10 per stat is more than enough to reel in PKP. You don't really need anything fancier than that.

Yeah, they would.

As a quick history lesson- back in the day, there was no crafted equipment, and anyone could be full looted on death. Despite the ever-present risk of being flooted, PK was constant with major group-on-group brawls and one-on-one fights both prevalent. Not to the same extent as people spamming for duels via tells or cgossip today (is that still a thing? I haven't had cgos on for years) but enough that any honorable PKer would happily duke it out with you 1v1 without calling for backup.

Fast forward to 2003- the bountypoint system is implemented. At first it was just for show and you couldn't actually buy anything. Later on, weapon averages across the board were lowered from most high-tier 1h weapons being avg 24 to 22 max, and 2h weapons were lowered from 25 to 24 max. All except for the Sword of the Gods (which I'm still convinced was an oversight), a weapon you could buy at the questmaster that was not only a 1h avg 24 weapons, but was also shocking bite, making it an amazing weapon. This oversight was eventually fixed and the sword was removed from the game, later to be brought back as bounty weapons, which have the same stats as oldstyle SotG's. (I think, not sure about the weights, I don't recall oldstlye SotG's being heavy AF, but that's neither here nor there). Looting is also bounty-based, meaning the more bountypoints you have, the more you can loot. I think it's still that way? I'm not certain since I haven't heard of anyone getting looted in ages, most clanners tend to keep nopkloot on so they can go out and PK in their dragonskins and highly enchanted crafted gear and not risk losing it.

Anyways, after the bounty changes were introduced but before PKP was implemented, most people were absolutely terrified of going out to PK and risk losing their hard-earned BP. The BP list was the big-dick ruler of the PK world, and unless you had a ton of BP, nobody really took you seriously. The only way most people accumulated so much BP was to go out in a group of four or five, minimum, and go take or defend keeps. Otherwise, the field PK scene was all but dead. Sure, there were always exceptions. But compared to the post-PKP world, there was precious little field PK to be found.

So, in a way, PKP did exactly what it was supposed to do- removed any penalties for dying and rewarded people who went out to PK, win or lose. The problem is that the pendulum swung way too far in the opposite direction, and there was no corrective action taken by the IMMs to balance it out. I've been advocating for the removal of PKP for years now, but even I have to admit that if you just highlighted the PKP code and hit delete, we'd probably go back to the old PK scene- dead and barren with even fewer people willing to go out and fight than there used to be before PKP was a thing.


TLDR: Before PKP there was just bountypoints, and PK was dead because nobody wanted to risk losing their BP.

Edited by Azah - 27 December 2020 at 7:38pm

Everything was better "back in the day".

At this point in the game it seems to be more a matter of retaining players or bringing back old ones. I think a hard cap would do that.

Bump!   Any word on this Scorn?   Would love to see this as a New Year feature!