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gnome power View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gnome power Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by Tongpu Tongpu wrote:

I'm openly wondering if its worth defending 2.55x's place in the game if the reason
for it to exist (offsetting obscene melee damage output/stun/defenses) is addressed
and curbed to be reasonable.

That and 2.55x works in the arena, which does feel right to me from a design per-
spective.

Yeah, I understand.

The part that surprised me was, having heard the outrage about this mechanic for so long, I was surprised to realize it's only a 15% damage advantage. Is 15% really such a tipping point between op and dying with a 4:1 advantage, as this thread seems to indicate?
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Tongpu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tongpu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 2:35pm
It is a sizable advantage when that 15% is applied on certain races with already
astronomical spelldamage boosts. If chain bounces and hits 16 times, you have
a reasonable chance of getting that bonus once per cast on the highest damage
spell in the game.

The Conclave has a lot going for them with their CSRs requiring no effort to be
competitive to begin with. Unlike hitters, Conclave CSRs do not require any pkp 
to be powerful or competitive, so my argument lies in what do we do with this
prestige benefit knowing that its reason to exist and give mages a competitive
edge is reeled in.


Edited by Tongpu - 06 May 2020 at 2:38pm
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Malachi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Malachi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 2:40pm
Clave was a doormat before yes?

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Tongpu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tongpu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by Malachi Malachi wrote:

Clave was a doormat before yes?

 

If you have one leg in the past and another leg in the future, you're pissing on
today. If your defense rests firmly in the idea that they suffered, therefore they
earned their opness then there are a lot of other candidates in the game that
deserve that same treatment.

The concept of pkp seasons implies a future where the PVP environment as we
know it no longer exists, which means other things will also (undoubtedly) need
to be looked at. This is one of those things, since pkp seasons will not influence
prestige benefits or Conclave CSR spelldamage. They will remain the same while
the rest of the game changes.


Edited by Tongpu - 06 May 2020 at 2:45pm
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Rongar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rongar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 3:14pm
So pkp training int should increase mages spell damage then?
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Tongpu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tongpu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by Rongar Rongar wrote:

So pkp training int should increase mages spell damage then?
 

Absolutely. It always should've been that way.
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Perrinn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Perrinn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 3:46pm
It does increase spelldamage. Just not as much as strength... The issue is when you get to a certain level with strength, you break through defenses, and you can weaponstun. Both open the floodgates on damage. Spells however do not have that issue, they always go through defenses, provided the caster isn't stunned.
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Lebowski View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Lebowski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by gnome power gnome power wrote:

The part that surprised me was, having heard the outrage about this mechanic for so long, I was surprised to realize it's only a 15% damage advantage. Is 15% really such a tipping point between op and dying with a 4:1 advantage, as this thread seems to indicate?

Just speaking on this point and not taking a stance on the overall issue: I think how that 15% "total" increase is distributed is really important. A flat 15% increase would actually be less powerful, at least in a field PK situation, than the chance for random spikes.

Doing big bursts of damage at the right times is more likely to get you a killing blow in field PK than a consistent overall DPS increase.
"I adored Biem, and really miss having him around. When mages were being too helpful and I needed my abuse, Biem was there for me wielding his words like demoralizing brain knives."



-Eaga
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PersiaDark View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PersiaDark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 6:28pm
I'm actually kinda opposed to these giant conclave boosts, ironically.

Mages outside of the Conclave are a little too-bad. Feels like 2.55x shouldn't even be conclave specific (not debating whether needed or not).

Except wujen, who are broken as poop.


edit: I'm pretty sure 5 years ago I would have told you being a mage outside of Conclave should make you trash. 


Edited by PersiaDark - 06 May 2020 at 8:14pm
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Erithalon. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Erithalon. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 7:15pm
Wujen are like ... the definition of powercreep.
There are 80 characters on, the most on for this boot was 17709.
The most we've ever had on was 17709.
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Galaydon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Galaydon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2020 at 8:37pm
bump
(Imm) Scorn OOC: 'I don't care what Maccus thinks, so its cool. :)'

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Malachi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Malachi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2020 at 5:27pm
An idea:

Have Your Cake And Eat It Too:
*Everyone has PKP Trains reset on login
*You keep your current PKP points
*Trains however require double current # points
*STAT CAP: 10
*During a PK Season of 2mo PKP Trains are acquired at HALF the current # points and the stat cap is temporarily removed
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Deathscythe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deathscythe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2020 at 5:51pm

Can you give an example?

Malichi logs on, his PKP Trains are reset.  He has ten.  He spends them on... Int.  Because why not?  Now he can only add 5 to a given stat, which is fine, and he goes about pking for more points so he can add more points to Int or to other stats?

Alternately, Azjuhb with his terrifying 100 Str... now resets with 50 points (or more!), has to put 10 in Str, 10 in all other stats, and can no longer benefit from PKP at all?

Overall, sounds needlessly complicated.

'I believe Zola always has one foot in the grave' - Chiatzu
https://sites.google.com/site/bloodlandsofabaddon/
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Tongpu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tongpu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2020 at 6:02pm
Nobody is going to want to have to re-earn what they already had on a periodic
basis. It is then no longer a reward. If it is no longer a reward, the system isn't
expanded on to be interesting or different to compensate, AND you have to re-
tread old ground then you have a recipe for disaster where the rollback is not
worth the time spent introducing it.

The time spent developing the change should also be an opportunity to place
equitable value on every stat, on every race, on most importantly every class.


Edited by Tongpu - 15 June 2020 at 6:21pm
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Deathscythe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deathscythe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2020 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by Tongpu Tongpu wrote:

Nobody is going to want to have to re-earn what they already had on a periodic
basis. It is then no longer a reward.
Oh, 110% in full agreement.  I've always described myself as a Kingdomer who Clans, but if we didn't have PKP and thus a benefit to joining up, I would Clan far less often.
'I believe Zola always has one foot in the grave' - Chiatzu
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Waaagh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waaagh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2020 at 8:41pm
Is pkp even an issue anymore?

We all just made clavers to kill the twinks, thus taking their crown and laughing at 100str.
Kallistos quests '(38) What is Waaagh's death cry? Has to be similar but not exact.


Yekio tells you 'ooc dude are you idiot or are you playing idiot'
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Malachi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Malachi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2020 at 8:54pm
Originally posted by Deathscythe Deathscythe wrote:

Can you give an example?

Malichi logs on, his PKP Trains are reset.  He has ten.  He spends them on... Int.  Because why not?  Now he can only add 5 to a given stat, which is fine, and he goes about pking for more points so he can add more points to Int or to other stats?

Alternately, Azjuhb with his terrifying 100 Str... now resets with 50 points (or more!), has to put 10 in Str, 10 in all other stats, and can no longer benefit from PKP at all?

Overall, sounds needlessly complicated.



The most trains in the game is around 50 correct? In my above idea that would be halved. You keep your PKP Points, not trains as is. Since trains will cost TWICE the amount even the monsters will only have 20-25 trains with their current PKP Points.

A complete reset to 0 would result in a big middle finger to those few players who have spent YEARS of hard work accumulating those points.

Also, you are not having to re-earn everything. Example:

Malichi plays normal DSL and say has accumulated 500 pkp which is now worth 8 trains (half of current value)
PKP seasons begins and goes for 2mo and in these 2mo lets say he accumulates 100 PKP Seasons Points, now worth 12 trains (2x current value). Seasons end and he loses those 12 trains from Seasons but still has his original 8 trains. He plays normal DSL for a couple months and has accumulated another 100pkp for a total of 600 and another train (remember, half current value.).

Make sense?

You have regular PKP Trains which will be twice as hard to get and never get reset.

Then you have "seasons" PKP Trains which will be twice as easy to get but get reset at the end of the season.

You also have a PKP Stat Cap.

So you can have slightly stronger chars without the full insanity of certain str/dex combos.
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Malachi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Malachi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2020 at 8:59pm
Also.....you don't need PKP Trains to enjoy PK or get wins. There are few monsters out these days. There are certain combos which hit hard and do well against those with more PKP. A Mul Brew is nasty.......or you can just join the Clave Wagon.
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Deathscythe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deathscythe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2020 at 10:06pm
PK Monsters invariably tend to kill themselves... they get so strong they invariably scare away any potential prey and become so bored they vanish from the game.  The best ones that last the longest are those that can continue to keep themselves entertained, and rarely just through fighting.  Through their own personal storylines and roleplay.
'I believe Zola always has one foot in the grave' - Chiatzu
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Donimas View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donimas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 June 2020 at 11:11pm
Indeed
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