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Galaydon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Galaydon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2020 at 12:08pm
Bump. Don't care what race, class, or clan you want buffed. Real issue is pkp being awful. Where are we with this?
(Imm) Scorn OOC: 'I don't care what Maccus thinks, so its cool. :)'

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Lenith View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lenith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2020 at 12:35pm
Scrap it?
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Galaydon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Galaydon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2020 at 10:03am
Originally posted by Galaydon Galaydon wrote:

This will bring a lot of hate and for once I'm not even trolling.

Highlight all the pkp code then press delete.

I want that feeling back of working days on finding someone's habits and gate posts. I want to let out a yell when we chase someone across two continents to finally get just 1 kill that day. I want to be forced into setting traps and seeking out new ways to kill you. I want the guy playing the char I'm fighting giving me 110% effort to rip my head off. I don't want someone sitting there not caring if they win or lose cause of some STUPID stat point. I want to break down every piece of mechanics to try and get even the slightest edge. I want to log every single fight just to break it down and eliminate any slight mistake. I want to be level 25 and terrified to leave the hall and train because I'm trying to hit 51 without losing the wanted flag. I want max effort from everyone, at all times. I dont want some stupid stat point for half hearted effort. I want see if I bring enough skill to a fight to win. I want to see if I have what it takes or do I need to push harder. Give me effort. Give me skill. DSL pkp has made us all lazy. You all have gone soft and forgot competition. Stop giving me a participation trophy.
(Imm) Scorn OOC: 'I don't care what Maccus thinks, so its cool. :)'

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Malachi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Malachi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2020 at 3:51pm
I think you should bump it one more time. Didn't Dorothy click her heals 3x?

I think there is a point where PKP makes a character very stupid and if that character is on the field then fewer people PK.....doing the exact opposite of what PKP intended yea?

I believe there is balance to be found.
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Azah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Azah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2020 at 6:05pm
PKP seemed to be borne of the fruit of a time when Scorn was searching for a way to add to endgame content. Its original iteration (I believe) was epic levels, where special mobs would grant epic XP to be used to progress past level 51.

I agree with the idea in principle, but it clearly needs a little tweaking. Whether that is stat-capping, PKP seasons, or (ideally) both. Something to tone down the ridiculousness of a human swashie or a shalo-elf bladesinger steamrolling people with 100 str.
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Unbearded View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unbearded Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2020 at 8:11pm
I am a proponent of pkp capping. At +10 per stat, I still have something to play for still with a ton of pkp. The problem with doing away with pkp altogether, I think, is that we return to people just staying in their halls all day. When bp becomes the only incentive beyond ego, then the field will be pretty desolate. For every person that likes pk PURELY for the fun of it, there are several more who are there for the incentives beyond that...

No, I'm not for 100/100/100/100/100 players....but I am for something beyond just the pure thrill of pk, and bountypoints don't cut it. I mean, at least 2 of the bounty skills are completely useless. Why the heck would a hitter want crit strike? 
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Azah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Azah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2020 at 8:25pm
Yeah, people played way too cautiously when BP was the only incentive. Maybe softening it so you only lose half BP on death instead of all of them would be an adequate answer.
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Malachi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Malachi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2020 at 10:02pm
Originally posted by Unbearded Unbearded wrote:

I am a proponent of pkp capping. At +10 per stat, I still have something to play for still with a ton of pkp. The problem with doing away with pkp altogether, I think, is that we return to people just staying in their halls all day. When bp becomes the only incentive beyond ego, then the field will be pretty desolate. For every person that likes pk PURELY for the fun of it, there are several more who are there for the incentives beyond that...

No, I'm not for 100/100/100/100/100 players....but I am for something beyond just the pure thrill of pk, and bountypoints don't cut it. I mean, at least 2 of the bounty skills are completely useless. Why the heck would a hitter want crit strike? 


Because of that deadly lag less crit-strike/PSWING Combo. So it's like a Mortal Kombat combo...I slice you then turn and kick!

A quick fix to crit-strike I think would be just to up the damage...cuz like it's a critical strike! Make it basically equal to CSR acid dam. That at least would have value....or is that still not enough?

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Unbearded View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unbearded Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2020 at 10:55pm
Originally posted by Malachi Malachi wrote:

Originally posted by Unbearded Unbearded wrote:

I am a proponent of pkp capping. At +10 per stat, I still have something to play for still with a ton of pkp. The problem with doing away with pkp altogether, I think, is that we return to people just staying in their halls all day. When bp becomes the only incentive beyond ego, then the field will be pretty desolate. For every person that likes pk PURELY for the fun of it, there are several more who are there for the incentives beyond that...

No, I'm not for 100/100/100/100/100 players....but I am for something beyond just the pure thrill of pk, and bountypoints don't cut it. I mean, at least 2 of the bounty skills are completely useless. Why the heck would a hitter want crit strike? 


Because of that deadly lag less crit-strike/PSWING Combo. So it's like a Mortal Kombat combo...I slice you then turn and kick!

A quick fix to crit-strike I think would be just to up the damage...cuz like it's a critical strike! Make it basically equal to CSR acid dam. That at least would have value....or is that still not enough?


Compared to rake/perforate/smite...yeah it still would suck for a red damage 1 shot spike? Yeah...how about that in a dot? Haha, let the hate commence!

But really, it needs to be something worth it. Maybe the creative people here can think of something.
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Malachi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Malachi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2020 at 3:15am
Originally posted by Unbearded Unbearded wrote:

Originally posted by Malachi Malachi wrote:

Originally posted by Unbearded Unbearded wrote:

I am a proponent of pkp capping. At +10 per stat, I still have something to play for still with a ton of pkp. The problem with doing away with pkp altogether, I think, is that we return to people just staying in their halls all day. When bp becomes the only incentive beyond ego, then the field will be pretty desolate. For every person that likes pk PURELY for the fun of it, there are several more who are there for the incentives beyond that...

No, I'm not for 100/100/100/100/100 players....but I am for something beyond just the pure thrill of pk, and bountypoints don't cut it. I mean, at least 2 of the bounty skills are completely useless. Why the heck would a hitter want crit strike? 


Because of that deadly lag less crit-strike/PSWING Combo. So it's like a Mortal Kombat combo...I slice you then turn and kick!

A quick fix to crit-strike I think would be just to up the damage...cuz like it's a critical strike! Make it basically equal to CSR acid dam. That at least would have value....or is that still not enough?



Compared to rake/perforate/smite...yeah it still would suck for a red damage 1 shot spike? Yeah...how about that in a dot? Haha, let the hate commence!

But really, it needs to be something worth it. Maybe the creative people here can think of something.



AOE DOT RED DAMAGE!!!!

Or

AOE NOFAIL STUN!!

Or

DOT STUN!!!


Ok no more caps.....a DOT stun I think would be juuuust OP enough...
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gnome power View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gnome power Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2020 at 10:08am
There wouldn't be a need for personal stat incentives if wars--especially the iconic wars like Shalo/Wargar, good/evil, slayers/remorts--could actually and definitively be won or lost with world consequences.

Arena combat has way more consequence than actual world wars, and we see active interest in arena combat. We still talk about years-old ACFL records, scour competitors' years-long AGL records for a slight betting edge, re-live past cwars. Meanwhile, it would be a challenge to remember the field pk that happened yesterday, let alone last week, last year or last decade.

I'd argue that actual world wars should have deeper consequence than AGL, ACFL, or cwars. They should build and destroy the world. We should see clans rise and collapse. Ruins of clans like the Serpantol of old. Bands of people able to rise up and capture the ruined locations of dead clans to form new ones. That lets characters roleplay ideals that they can back up, and adds political intrigue. We should see some get powerful enough to challenge kingdoms. Clans with zero membership phase out and get replaced naturally. That's history-building in real time.


Edited by gnome power - 22 October 2020 at 10:20am
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Unbearded View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Unbearded Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2020 at 10:33am
Originally posted by gnome power gnome power wrote:

There wouldn't be a need for personal stat incentives if wars--especially the iconic wars like Shalo/Wargar, good/evil, slayers/remorts--could actually and definitively be won or lost with world consequences.

Arena combat has way more consequence than actual world wars, and we see active interest in arena combat. We still talk about years-old ACFL records, scour competitors' years-long AGL records for a slight betting edge, re-live past cwars. Meanwhile, it would be a challenge to remember the field pk that happened yesterday, let alone last week, last year or last decade.

I'd argue that actual world wars should have deeper consequence than AGL, ACFL, or cwars. They should build and destroy the world. We should see clans rise and collapse. Ruins of clans like the Serpantol of old. Bands of people able to rise up and capture the ruined locations of dead clans to form new ones. That lets characters roleplay ideals that they can back up, and adds political intrigue. We should see some get powerful enough to challenge kingdoms. Clans with zero membership phase out and get replaced naturally. That's history-building in real time.





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Azah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Azah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2020 at 11:29am
Originally posted by gnome power gnome power wrote:


I'd argue that actual world wars should have deeper consequence than AGL, ACFL, or cwars. They should build and destroy the world. We should see clans rise and collapse. Ruins of clans like the Serpantol of old. Bands of people able to rise up and capture the ruined locations of dead clans to form new ones. That lets characters roleplay ideals that they can back up, and adds political intrigue. We should see some get powerful enough to challenge kingdoms. Clans with zero membership phase out and get replaced naturally. That's history-building in real time.




That would make for an excellent book, but a really crappy game. What incentive would there be for logging into a character on a losing clan? What incentive would there be for spending time and resources to prop up a failing clan about to be overrun? Some people might get a kick out of it, but for most people I think it would just be disheartening. Clanners aren't known for piling onto a losing side to make fights even: they're known for flocking to a single clan and steamrolling PK, and this would be no different. A game should be fun first and foremost before we start thinking about things like realism.

I don't think the idea is totally without merit. Things like capturable outposts would be fun. I even wrote up a similar idea about kwars (that didn't receive very much traction) a few weeks ago about conquering territory without actually deleting kingdoms in the process.

Edited by Azah - 22 October 2020 at 11:30am
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Kaisan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kaisan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2020 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by Azah Azah wrote:

I even wrote up a similar idea about kwars (that didn't receive very much traction) a few weeks ago about conquering territory without actually deleting kingdoms in the process.
lol kwars. Look at the optimism on this guy!
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Azah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Azah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2020 at 1:05pm
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gnome power View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gnome power Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2020 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by Azah Azah wrote:

That would make for an excellent book, but a really crappy game. What incentive would there be for logging into a character on a losing clan? What incentive would there be for spending time and resources to prop up a failing clan about to be overrun? Some people might get a kick out of it, but for most people I think it would just be disheartening. Clanners aren't known for piling onto a losing side to make fights even: they're known for flocking to a single clan and steamrolling PK, and this would be no different. A game should be fun first and foremost before we start thinking about things like realism.

I don't think the idea is totally without merit. Things like capturable outposts would be fun. I even wrote up a similar idea about kwars (that didn't receive very much traction) a few weeks ago about conquering territory without actually deleting kingdoms in the process.

This sounds like an argument in favor of the proposal. Losing clans just shouldn't exist. Look at what happens now. They just go empty and unused.

Now imagine if there were no such thing as pkp granting embedded clans total domination, losing clans just cleared out of queue, and new clan concepts that were generating excitement were able to go up in their place.


Edited by gnome power - 22 October 2020 at 2:07pm
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Azah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Azah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2020 at 3:34pm
If clans could be destroyed, the first two that would be defeated right now are Shadow and Knighthood. Do you really think DSL would be better off losing their legacy?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gnome power Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2020 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by Azah Azah wrote:

If clans could be destroyed, the first two that would be defeated right now are Shadow and Knighthood. Do you really think DSL would be better off losing their legacy?

Emphatically yes.

I think there needs to be room for honorable non-human clans, to be honest. And Shadow lost its reason for existence anyway. Plus, does anyone really believe having two human-only clans at the same time is a good fit for the existing clanned pbase?


Edited by gnome power - 22 October 2020 at 4:03pm
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Lothaw View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lothaw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2020 at 5:24pm
Seems to me this would just lead to clan good, clan evil and that's about it if you let the bandwagoning actually destroy clans. That seems the opposite of interesting gameplay.
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Malachi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Malachi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2020 at 5:40pm
Clans with a low pbase fluctuate though. When I came back last May Wargar and Justice didn't have a pbase and Bloodlust routinely held most if not all of the Keeps and 25-33% of the weekly top 20.

But things fluctuate.
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